Todd Cordell: Blue Jackets Like Analytics, Except When it Comes to Jack Johnson

He was pretty freakin good in the playoffs when it really mattered. Analytics doesn't take into consideration the desire to win. JJ brings a winning mentality that outweighs analytics imo

He was pretty freakin good in the playoffs when it really mattered. Analytics doesn't take into consideration the desire to win. JJ brings a winning mentality that outweighs analytics imo
- jrgray20

Agreed on that,even tough some nhl teams, notably the Flames, have been using advanced stats before the whole corsi -Fenwick phenomenon. To me I think the nhl is entering it's moneyball era(funny because the A's are on top right now).

This new "moneyball" era will cause players with hyped "advanced stats" to be overpaid in dollars and term...

thus cancelling out the effect of "moneyball"

How is "Johnson Apart" calculated?

"Apart" from what?

Todd Cordell: Blue Jackets Like Analytics, Except When it Comes to Jack Johnson
- Todd-Cordell

The part youre not taking into consideration is his QOC and Zone starts. Johnson and Tyutin took the vast majority of defensive zone starts against the the highest quality of competition by a wide margin.

This new "moneyball" era will cause players with hyped "advanced stats" to be overpaid in dollars and term...

thus cancelling out the effect of "moneyball"

How is "Johnson Apart" calculated?

"Apart" from what?
- RoloTahmasee

No different than "intangibles" going into the massive overpayment of players now.

No different than "intangibles" going into the massive overpayment of players now.
- OzBolts

Like Ryan Callahan?

Why is everyone better without this guy? As far as I know he is a decent skater and has a decent shot and works his ass off. At the same time no one is scared to play against him and the percentages don't lie. Everything I said above actually sounds like Im talking about Dion Phaneuf

Todd Cordell is like the L Ron Hubbard of Analytics

Stats are great for a summary, but to really know a player you have to watch him play.no getting around it.you just have to watch the games.

Why is everyone better without this guy? As far as I know he is a decent skater and has a decent shot and works his ass off. At the same time no one is scared to play against him and the percentages don't lie. Everything I said above actually sounds like Im talking about Dion Phaneuf
- Jordy8

His decision making with and without the puck is often questionable... guy was so big/strong/fast on his way up that he never had to develop NHL-level hockey sense.

Corsi is just particularly good at capturing all those times he's out of position, makes the wrong play, makes bad reads, and plays outside the system -- the off-puck stuff especially.

Stats are great for a summary, but to really know a player you have to watch him play.no getting around it.you just have to watch the games.
- Allforhim12

It is possible to watch the games AND review the stats, you know.

They are called fancy stats. "Analytics" is just the term used by fancy stat people to sound even more snooty.

The part youre not taking into consideration is his QOC and Zone starts. Johnson and Tyutin took the vast majority of defensive zone starts against the the highest quality of competition by a wide margin.
- Iggysbff

THIS

So the argument would be that J.J and Tyutin are just not an effective top pair group but rather two good 2nd pair guys just like Wiz and Murray.

This new "moneyball" era will cause players with hyped "advanced stats" to be overpaid in dollars and term...

thus cancelling out the effect of "moneyball"

How is "Johnson Apart" calculated?

"Apart" from what?
- RoloTahmasee

Umm, Apart from that particular player

THIS

So the argument would be that J.J and Tyutin are just not an effective top pair group but rather two good 2nd pair guys just like Wiz and Murray.
- Alexzanki

If Wiz and Murray were getting the exact same assignments as JJ and Tyutin they would have horrendous corsi and the rest...

fancy stats are overrated

Stats are great for a summary, but to really know a player you have to watch him play.no getting around it.you just have to watch the games.
- Allforhim12

Good point, never thought of that. If you check my archive for when I started writing about CBJ you certainly won't see me recapping games. Oh wait...

All B.S to stupid to talk about to honest

Funny story, I read the Wisniewski is elite blog and watched some of the Pens Jackets series on NHL network.

After watching Wisniewski make bad play after bad play even one on the PP(Where he is supposedly "elite") turning it over right to Sutter and let him walk in and score.... I couldn't help but think that the analytics didn't translate to what I was seeing.

I also remember quite a few people in the last few years talking about how over rated Jack Johnson was. Yet he was by far the Jackets best defensemen in that series.

Funny story, I read the Wisniewski is elite blog and watched some of the Pens Jackets series on NHL network.

After watching Wisniewski make bad play after bad play even one on the PP(Where he is supposedly "elite") turning it over right to Sutter and let him walk in and score.... I couldn't help but think that the analytics didn't translate to what I was seeing.

I also remember quite a few people in the last few years talking about how over rated Jack Johnson was. Yet he was by far the Jackets best defensemen in that series.
- sbroads24

He's elite at producing points on the power play. Only Shea Weber averages more points/60 minutes of 5 v 4 time since 2012. That's also regular season numbers, so the playoffs had no impact.

He's elite at producing points on the power play. Only Shea Weber averages more points/60 minutes of 5 v 4 time since 2012. That's also regular season numbers, so the playoffs had no impact.
- Todd.Cordell

I understand.

However Jack Johnson is a superior player to James Wisniewski. Yet two blogs have been posted with the narrative that it's actually the opposite. Whether that's your intention or not, it's the impression you're giving. Analytics have their place, but saying that the Blue Jackets have a "love affair" for Jack Johnson based solely on advanced stats is irresponsible. He's a good player.

Edit: I also don't think that Wiz and Johnson are leagues apart either. They are both good, but a blog about one being "elite" in any category, while then labeling the other over rated is what I disagree with

He's elite at producing points on the power play. Only Shea Weber averages more points/60 minutes of 5 v 4 time since 2012. That's also regular season numbers, so the playoffs had no impact.
- Todd.Cordell

Don't worry Todd half the people on this site were clueless as to what you wrote.

The part youre not taking into consideration is his QOC and Zone starts. Johnson and Tyutin took the vast majority of defensive zone starts against the the highest quality of competition by a wide margin.
- Iggysbff

Somehow that arguement doesn't seem to apply with Phaneuf.

Agreed on that,even tough some nhl teams, notably the Flames, have been using advanced stats before the whole corsi -Fenwick phenomenon. To me I think the nhl is entering it's moneyball era(funny because the A's are on top right now).
- Alexzanki

Flames have been among the leaders in advanced stats use ...

interesting.

Somehow that arguement doesn't seem to apply with Phaneuf.
- Aetherial

Agreed. Or Myers for the Sabres.

Lowest Off zone start %, faced toughest comp. Yet people drool over Christian Ehrhoff's advanced numbers despite being gifted Off zone starts and weaker competition